This or That with Sullivan and Rosie

Strategy or Luck?

Sullivan: I do love luck games. I’m going to go with luck games because strategy games – bad strategy games in particular – have it so that once you’re losing, you can’t come back. If you make a bad move early in the game because you don’t know the game too well then it’s like the whole game is lost. Good ones will allow you to swing back and make a comeback though. But with luck games, well, who knows what’s going to happen? And there’s so much drama (laughs).

Rosie: Yeah, luck games sort of level the playing field for everyone. If you’re playing a strategy game with someone who has played before then you’ve got no chance. But if you’re playing a strategy game that you know really well and everyone’s played it loads then that can be super fun. I think I prefer the luck games because you just don’t know what’s going to happen. Everyone gets a proper go.

Sullivan: I just love it when you have that moment of, “Yes! I’ve done it! I’ve beaten the odds!”

Co-op or Competitive? 

Rosie: Competitive.

Sullivan: Yeah.

Rosie: Co-op games are boring. Get them out! Move on!

Sullivan: When we play co-op games they always end up being competitive. 

Rosie: It’s our natural alignment.

Sullivan: When we played Mysterium, we were so angry at each other.

Rosie: Oh yeah. That was great. It was so funny… I don’t really understand the point of a co-op game. It’s boring. It’s just like, “Oh, let’s all have a nice fun time together.” No. That’s not what we want. We want people to feel shame. We want people to feel frustration and sadness. We want anger and falling outs. But then obviously after the game it’s all water under the bridge. That’s the nature of a good game – strong emotions.

Sullivan: I think you can get that from a co-op game but I—

Rosie: No. No. No.

Sullivan: You can!

Rosie: Name me a good co-op game.

Sullivan: Mansion of Madness. That’s a great co-op game.

Rosie: Never heard of it. Go on. Give me another one.

Sullivan: Mysterium!

Rosie: Never heard of it.

Sullivan: (laughs) You played it!!

Rosie: It’s inherently competitive.

Sullivan: No, it’s not!

Rosie: (laughs) Give me another one.

Sullivan: Um… Uh…

Rosie: See, you can’t think of any.

Sullivan: (broken) I swear there are others. They’re just not coming to me right now. I can’t remember.

Dice rolling or Card drawing?

Sullivan: Dice rolling for me, 100%.

Rosie: Yeah, I think so too actually. I like the dice rolling games. I don’t really understand dice so I think that’s why it’s quite fun. You can sort of learn cards but with dice, the probability is complicated.

Sullivan: I think there’s also something about dice rolling that is naturally going to be more dramatically interesting. Card drawing can be because, you know, you might need one card to do well or whatever, but with dice rolling you’re watching your odds in real time. It might look like it’s going to land on a six but then you get a one. That’s way more interesting than a card, which is always just going to be a card. 

Short games or Marathon sessions?

Sullivan: Short games!

Rosie: Short games! I’d even consider an hour a short game.

Sullivan: Yeah. Anything below an hour can be classified as a short game. Marathon sessions, they’re just so hard. It’s hard to concentrate for that long.

Rosie: I’ve never played a super long game. The longest game I’ve played is probably The Thing. That was a couple of hours. That’s good enough for me.

Kickstarter games or classic games?

Sullivan: I guess probably Kickstarter games. Most classic games are generally quite rubbish because they were made at a time when there weren’t that many board games. I feel like modern Kickstarter games tend to be better.

Rosie: And also it’s people trying to do something cool. New people, new ideas. That’s always worth investing in.

Playing with seasoned gamers or introducing new players?

Sullivan: Introducing new players for me. Playing with season gamers can be hit or miss. There are some seasoned gamers who are genuinely fantastic. They’ll teach you the rules and offer you good advice. But then you have some seasoned gamers who are there just to show off how well they know the game and how clever they are. They’ll either railroad you into doing what they think you should do or their turn or they’ll just crush you. When you introduce new players to a game, it’s really fun to see the excitement of someone going, “I love this game.” I introduced Blood on the Clocktower to my friend from school and he has a sister who is like this really cool teenager. You know, she’s super cool and she’s got a hundred thousand followers on TikTok and all that stuff. I thought she was going to absolutely hate Blood on the Clocktower but after two nights of playing she turned around to me and went, “I f**king LOVE this game.” It was the biggest joy of the night! I couldn’t believe I’d introduced this game to someone who would never usually play board games and she’d loved it.

Rosie: I’m inclined to agree. Honestly, I don’t really mind whether it’s new people playing or seasoned pros. So long as everyone is nice about it then I’m happy. Sometimes you’ll play with new people and they’ll throw their toys out of the pram because they don’t get it. It can sort of go both ways I think. I guess I’d say the level of board gaming expertise doesn’t really matter. I wouldn’t consider myself an expert by any means. Even on the channel, a lot of the time we learn a board game on the actual day we film. We learn it in the morning and then after lunch we play it. We’re all new players to most games that we play. We just get on with it and we always end up having a nice time. We’re lucky to have so many seasoned gamers amongst us too. Sullivan plays a lot. So does Laurie. And Ken. And Holly. They’re all so great at sharing their knowledge with everyone. I think as a group we’re a perfect mix.

Get stuck in an elevator with a sore loser or a gloating winner?

Sullivan: Oh, god! They’re both awful.

Rosie: Well, if we just go with Dominic Allen then we get both in one.

Sullivan: Yeah, exactly! (Laughs)

Rosie: We’ll have this AND that. We’ll have him.

Sullivan: Yeah! The answer to this question is Dom.

Rosie: We can talk about his health problems as well while we’re at it.

Sullivan: Oh, yeah! We can just give him life advice the whole way through.

Rosie: And he can tell us what he thinks of our performances and our show. And just our personalities and stuff in general.

Sullivan: Yeah, let’s just take him along into that horrible lift and get stuck in there as he just tells us AGAIN about an anxiety that he has. And then, if we dare to offer him advice that he doesn’t enjoy, he’ll attack us.

Rosie: He’ll personally attack us all the while telling us how much he needs a poo. And then maybe we’ll write a little song about him and post it on the internet. Then he’ll get annoyed and say to us, “Oh, I wish that song wasn’t in existence,” and we’ll say, “You know, maybe you shouldn’t have talked about it 24/7 in the episode of BOTC.” Then he’ll say, “Yes, but I didn’t think it would go in the edit.” We’ll be like, “How did you not think it would make it into the edit when you said it every second sentence?” He’ll be sad, sad, cry. We’ll be like, there, there. Then he’ll be okay again and start talking about how he won and he’s the king of the world and we’ll be like, “Oh, kill me. Let me out. Let me out. Let me out.” That’s how it’ll go.

Sullivan: (laughs) We are part of what I like to call The Dominic Allen Support Network, otherwise known as Dom’s friends. We all simultaneously go through this. And yes, we also have to deal with him when he does win and he’s insufferable. If you see any video where he wins OR loses, so any video basically, you will understand.

Rosie: Yeah, you don’t want to but you get to a point where you can’t imagine life without him. It’s so innate now. I’d be a different person if Dom was no longer around. If I decided to cut off that horrible thing from my life, yeah, I’d be better but inside I would be sad and somehow worse.

Sullivan: Yep. 100%.

Rosie: So I guess, yeah, PS, we love him and he’s talented and wonderful and all that stuff.

Enjoy this article? Check out 10 Questions with Sullivan here and 10 Questions with Rosie here.